Discussion: Lag Displacement Roll

[Quasar]

I have found that sometimes reading about lag displacement is alot like the hs yo-yo, with a turn away from the bogey. I have found that what I believe to be a lag displacement roll is a roll away that brings you almost straight behind, or near the bogey's six, with a maintanence of speed or maybe a bit more speed. Which is ideal in that after the bogey pulls a hard turn toward, he is more than likely trying to either rebuild E or sometimes trying to zoom out of a hard turn. I am hoping that this is, in fact, a lag displacement roll, or maybe something that I'm doing and just plain getting lucky.
I will try and put together an idea of what's happening in this maneuver and let you know if this is correct. (I'm in a high thrust/weight ratio fighter, Bf109f4 and bogey the earliest version of the Spit, I think a mk5)
1. Bogey is turning left to 270, trying to turn inside, I'm headed 000.
2. Bogey passes, still heading 270, I roll to the right, away from bogey, and pull down once I reach about 090.
3. Bogey continues 270, I'm now pulling out of my loop and now heading 270 and have a good speed advantage over bogey and now gaining on bogey.
That's as best, and simplest, as I can describe in words. My hands act this out better, of course. Is this a lag displacement roll? At time 1, I could opt for a high deflection shot and try to turn with the Spit, but with the F4, I have found that this just makes the engagement longer and gives the Spit somemore options for maneuvering.
Also, at time 2, I'm in a bad position because I've lost sight of the bogey until I pull up to meet his six. This is why I dont think it's a lag displacement. And this loss of sight is sometimes a hair-raiser in that sometimes the bogey won't play by my rules and does something really out of the ordinary. hehe.
I hope this is understandable, as it is really a simple maneuver, that doesnt bleed much of my E away, and I usually try to keep speed up, at or nearly to 400kph. Never engaging below 350kph, unless I'm in a real good position and situation.
Thanks for all the help, I'm reading "Fighter Combat,"by Shaw and am in the section of maneuvering: dissimilar a/c. This is a great book to really focus in and try to understand without misinterpretation.
-Quasar

[MaXMhZ]

That's quite an advanced maneuvre Quasar. I'm impressed
It looks something like this (from "In Persuit" - an online pdf by Johan Kylander - sorry I lost the link):


I was so p*d off I lost the link I searched for it again... better get that free pdf from here: http://web.comhem.se/~u85627360/
It's a 175 page document with loads of tips and maneuvres for online WWII aircombat. IMHO it's a must-read.
I've e-mailed the author about availability of the hardcopy version too Will report when I hear more.
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Update:
I just received a reply email. "In Persuit" and "the Book of NOOb" have not made it into print as of yet I will reeive an email when they do And I'm sure looking forward to that day - It's great stuff!

[Quasar]

Sorry it took me awhile to get back. I bought a bicycle and I've been applying for a job as a vet tech. so Ive been busy.
I think I'm doing something right. I'm am beginning to get very good at this, but I still am fustrated in that I loose sight of the bogey when I invert and begin my roll toward the projected vector of the bandit who is now running for his dear life.
Thank you for the info MaxMHz, I printed tha copy of "in Pursuit," much thanks to Kylander, and it is a great big help. I am also interested in this game that he plays called WWIIOnline, but I'm hardly afforded the opportunity to play at set schedules online.
again, big thanks,
I'm trying just about any maneuver in the "books" and trying to see what fits my style, but the road has been hard with many times shot-down. But, just the other day I got in a vertical scissors with a Spit Mk5 and he hit me as I was trying to begin my first roll towards. WHAM! no chance to bail, his shots rang true inside of my cockpit and I was KIA.
still, I'm having more fun playing this than actually living life, hehe just kidding folks.

[MaXMhZ]

I know the feeling. Quite some addiction this IL-2. Even after years of flying it I learn something new every day. And the coming time should be very interesting. M4T now has a mission template section and it's catching on with the mission builders already This should result in some very detailed and interesting maps or even campaigns soon

[Henkie]

Maybe I am wrong but I think in the lag displacement roll you never roll away from the bandit, but always toward the bandit to keep him in sight.

I think dur ing the lag displacement roll what happens is that the attacker rolls to the outside of the defenders turn(so in lag), but as the attacker pulls up and the bandit passes below, say from right to left, the attacker rolls towards the bandit to the right and keeps rolling to the right to "keep his canopy on the bandit" so the attacking pilot can keep tally during the entire attack.

Then when the attacker is upside down and outside the bandits turn circle, he can continue to roll and pull towards the bandit, but this time to the inside of the defenders turn.